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 Post subject: One last plea for traps
PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 4:49 pm 
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So you get a rune, some armor and ammo, and go hunting. Then you run over an anti-pack, set on fire, and run through a teleporter where you're stuck in some glue or ice. Or you go to get an RL and surprise, it's death spots. Since all that ever gets played is Start, DM4, DM6 and E1M7, this means that nearly every weapon or health box is trapped. DM1 and DM5 have 1 RL in a cage, impossible to get.

The question is this: Is this fun for everyone? I'm I the only one who finds this sort of game play tedious and unenjoyable?

If yes, it's probably time for me to find another game, but if no, would it be possible for traps to disappear when the rune is dropped? I can't run through lava when I drop enviro, I don't make people hop when I dump jump, gravity wells, zombies and shamblers all disappear: why should radiation, fire, glue, ice and death spots persist, and compound eachother, and be everywhere?


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 Post subject: Re: One last plea for traps
PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 4:04 am 
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Hi Sprax,

I have to agree with you here, at least in part, in that it can be massively frustrating and I'm sure that the Runes would benefit from a little tweaking here and there. On the one side you have the fact that Runes can be a bit of a "leveller" in that lesser skilled or disadvantaged players can maybe get a few frags against Frag monsters like Dee, Sole and the like, which may explain some of the broad appeal of the mod. However, some players seem to fill the level with traps, bombs, and other detritus and then go hide which doesn't seem quite in the spirit of the game to me. Meanwhile you have to tip toe around a map which impacts on the pace of the game.

I don't know what the answer is but perhaps an increase on the ammo cost to a player for using traps, plus a slight reduction in the potency might be a way forward. The traps will still be there but the strategy in using them would have to be more balanced. Death traps will always have to do what it says on the tin but perhaps make them cost 50 cells for example. Perhaps reduce the amount of time a freeze/ice trap will hold you by 50%. Make timed bombs more expensive to use, so maybe 40 Rockets a piece?
These are just humble suggestions on a possible way forward, so please dont shoot the messenger :), but it all depends on if there is support from the playerbase and a willingness to do this higher up the food chain

While we are at it... Can I humbly suggest that we do something to encourage potential campers to actually play. I know that there is a "campers welcome" policy on Shmack but one can regularly see 3 <50 pingers camping [Monty turns and looks in Ichabod's direction] and 1 person actually playing. Needless to say, the one person playing the game often soon gets fed up and leaves/goes afk. A little bit of camping is unfortunately part of the game but it's getting a bit rediculous at times with players spending the whole level taking cheap shots in the same spot.

/2 cents worth

Kind regards

Monty


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 Post subject: Re: One last plea for traps
PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 3:38 pm 
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sprax wrote:
So you get a rune, some armor and ammo, and go hunting. Then you run over an anti-pack, set on fire, and run through a teleporter where you're stuck in some glue or ice. Or you go to get an RL and surprise, it's death spots. Since all that ever gets played is Start, DM4, DM6 and E1M7, this means that nearly every weapon or health box is trapped. DM1 and DM5 have 1 RL in a cage, impossible to get.

This is always going to be the case. Reducing the amount of traps or limiting their use is not going to prevent you from experiencing this. At best, on servers with fewer players, you won't experience it as much.

sprax wrote:
The question is this: Is this fun for everyone? I'm I the only one who finds this sort of game play tedious and unenjoyable?

If yes, it's probably time for me to find another game, but if no, would it be possible for traps to disappear when the rune is dropped? I can't run through lava when I drop enviro, I don't make people hop when I dump jump, gravity wells, zombies and shamblers all disappear: why should radiation, fire, glue, ice and death spots persist, and compound eachother, and be everywhere?

Some runes are only effective when you carry them while others set traps that expire after your death. The traps don't expire after death so that you have an opportunity to kill/cripple players while you search the level for a good weapon or rune. As with anything, it sucks to be the victim but it's great when it works out in your favor.

Removing traps on death isn't an option I would consider, however, if the consensus is that there are too many traps then there are others things that can be done like limiting max traps or reducing expiration times.

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 Post subject: Re: One last plea for traps
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 6:11 pm 
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I say leave it as is. The traps are an inconvenience to all. It's a level playing field. The object of the game is to avoid traps if they are out. Learn to avoid traps. Don't just walk into any portal blindly. Don't randomly walk over ammo or health. That's the whole strategy and skill needed to "beat" the traps!

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 Post subject: Re: One last plea for traps
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 8:20 pm 
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I guess I just see a difference between "I'm going to glue trap this teleporter and grapple camp over it" and "Let me drop 3 random glue traps in the middle of a corridor before I drop the rune and pick up something else". The first one has some enjoyment, unseating a camper is fun, the second is just irritating, at least to me.


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 Post subject: Re: One last plea for traps
PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 11:42 am 
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I'll be honest. I don't always throw traps at portals or other confined areas. Sometimes I throw traps in open areas because you have a better chance to kill someone in larger areas where more people visit. Again it comes down to be aware of your surroundings and don't just navigate a map on blind faith. You have to be cautious no matter where you go. :)

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 Post subject: Re: One last plea for traps
PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 2:59 pm 
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I like the traps-- but probably fall under the frag-monster category as well. I'm with steve on the traps-- I try to put them in non-standard locations now. Most players (even ones that aren't as good) generally know where people put traps. So I put them around corridors or open areas. Hardly through a teleport unless I'm being chased and think there is a 90% chance I'm about to get blown up with somebody behind me. Better to use the rune before you get killed.

The traps really help the struggling players-- especially open maps with Radiation followed by beserk! Seen some players actually have a chance of being in the top 3 with that one!

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 Post subject: Re: One last plea for traps
PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 9:14 pm 
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LOL @ avoid traps. Try avoiding this:
https://anonfiles.com/file/b939dd70c239 ... 9a8372bb3a


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 Post subject: Re: One last plea for traps
PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 11:41 pm 
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So weird to see myself playing (from another point of view) Kind of scares me!

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 Post subject: Re: One last plea for traps
PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 4:00 pm 
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Leave the traps as they are, that's my opinion. :up:

They're a way for those of us who aren't that great at fighting to score a frag or two against the top players. They also help to keep everyone on their toes. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: One last plea for traps
PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 4:38 pm 
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a banana-- good thinking. Especially the scenario with a good player having a strong rune (ie resistance or 666 health) Trapping may be the only way to take out your anger on them!

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 Post subject: Re: One last plea for traps
PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 6:52 pm 
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Slot,

Would it be possible to add an option to vote each trap in/out of the game? For example, vote-itrap, vote-dtrap, vote-ftrap, vote-gtrap and even a vote-traps for all to be disabled?

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 Post subject: Re: One last plea for traps
PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 8:50 pm 
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I'm kind of fixated on disappear on drop. The only player using them strategically is die_plz (who is very good at it), everyone else is just pressing the use key 3 times and dropping the rune within seconds of picking it up. It's random and it's everywhere.

If there is no support for that, maybe the traps could make some noise. The alt weapons all make some sound when they're about to go off, would be nice for traps too.

Barring that, could you at least lower the time limit between suicides? It's so bad that a few of us have keys bound to kill, since I would rather lose one frag then run around on fire in a map without water, stuck in a corner with a twirly head, frozen in ice/glue or find myself suddenly without weapons in what had been a really enjoyable rocket battle.

I don't want to be first to 50, I want to have cool running fights, flying through the air with the hook and battling my powerup against my opponents. Suddenly landing in some totally random trap just kills the action, and I'm finding it harder and harder to get any enjoyment out of it.


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 Post subject: Re: One last plea for traps
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:06 pm 
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Painkiller wrote:
Would it be possible to add an option to vote each trap in/out of the game? For example, vote-itrap, vote-dtrap, vote-ftrap, vote-gtrap and even a vote-traps for all to be disabled?

I think if you go down that road it's going to lead to disaster. It'll start off with traps, then maybe a request for the really powerful runes, and when all is said and done we'll have 50+ vote commands for runes. The trap runes have been on the server for nearly 20 years, I'm not sure why they need to be removed all of a sudden.

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 Post subject: Re: One last plea for traps
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 6:05 pm 
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Slot Zero wrote:
I'm not sure why they need to be removed all of a sudden.

Then, as Sprax suggested, can the suicide timer be changed so those of us who refuse to be stuck in ice at least zap ourselves even if we do lose a frag in the process?

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 Post subject: Re: One last plea for traps
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 11:00 pm 
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Don't get caught in ice :P

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 Post subject: Re: One last plea for traps
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 8:15 pm 
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For the love of Christ can the suicide timer please be reduced? ASAP? There was no support for ending the out of control trap spam. There was no support for toning down that piece of shit freeze rune. And BTW, any bullshit about getting a counter rune is exactly that: bullshit. What fucking good is jump, or gravity well, or dual recall against that fucking travesty of a rune? They're worthless! The only hope you have of countering is enviro or shield, and maybe health and armor if you can load up before some dipshits trap robs you of all the work and you have to start over again. So since everyone seems to enjoy that garbage, can we please, in the name of all that's holy, lower the suicide timer to 15 seconds so that I'm not wasting time getting fragged by someone who had to wait until I stopped moving? Yes, it's such a mess, you get stuck in some sort of fuckery or other more than once in 60 seconds.

Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: One last plea for traps
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 2:49 am 
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Painkiller wrote:
Then, as Sprax suggested, can the suicide timer be changed so those of us who refuse to be stuck in ice at least zap ourselves even if we do lose a frag in the process?

sprax wrote:
For the love of Christ can the suicide timer please be reduced? ASAP?

Yes.

UPDATE: Done. You will no longer be penalized for suiciding when you're frozen or glued.

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 Post subject: Re: One last plea for traps
PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 7:04 pm 
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Slot Zero wrote:
UPDATE: Done. You will no longer be penalized for suiciding when you're frozen or glued.

Beautiful job, Slot. Just froze myself three times in a row, suicided and couldn't ask for better. Well done and many thanks!

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