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 Post subject: Credit?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 8:47 pm 
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Are you going to be giving credit to the creators of the runes much like you gave Baker credit for his idea?

Credit's are not something I normally care about, but after seeing how some "things" are being handled that were already tried in the past I can't help but have some strong emotions churned up.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 9:26 pm 
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Could you be more specific?

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 9:38 pm 
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I think IEEE has some legitimate points, and the map standardization thing appears to be on his mind as well due to the major effort IEEE and Dolemite and Lefty made to review and test maps ... so he has multiple things on his mind at once.

It would not hurt to credit IEEE for those runes he invented, Roderick did that in the old days.

As a personal note, I happen to never require credit for my ideas. I give everything I make, suggest or push freely to the Quake community.

I can easily see if IEEE feels that it was inconsistent to not credit him for his work.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 10:32 pm 
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Baker, I appreciate you trying to decipher what IEEE is saying, but I would much rather hear him explain it.

On the issue of credit, my source code speaks for itself. I've gone out of my way to credit the original authors, and that even includes idsoftware. I've always been open to suggestions and if anyone feels I didn't credit them properly, please contact me.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 11:10 pm 
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IEEE, wait a sec ...

Just started looking thru your RQP source code (the latest one ... http://www.rqplus.com/html/downloads/rqpv0.5.2beta.zip)

and I don't see ANY credits to Roderick or Singe in it at all?
and I see Slot's name *barely* mentioned?

Furthermore, I don't recall any credits to Slot Zero at the old Beatdown site.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 11:13 pm 
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Ok, IEEE, not only do I not recall any credits to Slot Zero (or Roderick or Singe) at the old Beatdown site, but there simply weren't any ...

http://web.archive.org/web/200206022310 ... emite.net/

Time travel courtesy of the Archive.org

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 11:19 pm 
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Well Slot has something really weird in his requirements something about not mentioning him in any of the code, so to be safe I removed evey mention of him.

You'll also note I don't even have my own name at the tops of the code, nor do I give credit to ID software.

My point is if you're going to mention one person and give him credit, why not do the rest?

super blue stuff - Yugo2Heck?
blizzard - IEEE
thor - Painkiller
sniper - Too generic
sonar - IEEE
Teleporting exits - Dolemite/IEEE
Etc.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 11:23 pm 
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Alright, IEEE, not trying to harp on you :lol: but you also didn't include a GPL in your source like you are supposed to do ...

Code:
b) You must cause any work that you distribute or publish, that in whole or in part contains or is derived from the Program or any part thereof, to be licensed as a whole at no charge to all third parties under the terms of this License.


The above is part of the GPL included with the RuneQuake source.

Shouldn't Slot have been credited on the Beatdown site by your standards of how things should be done? :) Or your site?

I'm just starting to think about this in depth.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 11:29 pm 
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My standards are pretty relaxed when it comes to credits (except in version 0.5.3 where every rune has the extension of it's mod origins .rq, .dz, .rqp, etc.) in my stuff. Now if you request to be given credit I'll give it to you without question.

Slot singled one persons idea out, but not the others.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 11:30 pm 
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Mr Wi-Fi wrote:
Well Slot has something really weird in his requirements something about not mentioning him in any of the code, so to be safe I removed evey mention of him.

You'll also note I don't even have my own name at the tops of the code, nor do I give credit to ID software.

My point is if you're going to mention one person and give him credit, why not do the rest?

super blue stuff - Yugo2Heck?
blizzard - IEEE
thor - Painkiller
sniper - Too generic
sonar - IEEE
Teleporting exits - Dolemite/IEEE
Etc.


It doesn't matter to me if my name is mentioned or not (Slot you are free to remove my name off that post if you desire to do so).

But an alternate point of view, and I've wasted the last hour thinking about this over and over and over again and then asking questions ---> because I care about BOTH of you guys ... is this ...

How about just being happy that people are making stuff for Quake and everyone just get along?

IEEE, it seems odd to me that you would want Slot to do what you yourself did not do? Isn't your own idea of how you go about crediting others (not crediting Singe or Rod) a good enough standard for everyone?

Btw, until right now I had *no* idea Painkiller invented the Thor rune.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 11:35 pm 
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By the way, IEEE ... people steal all kinds of stuff I've made and not credited me and I don't care.

I like it when people take my binds or map pics or whatever and use 'em. I didn't even want my name credited on the RuneQuake.com map reference and I sent an email asking Slot to remove my name from the "credit" (he had a reason that he refused to so that persuaded me, whatever it was).

Tech.RuneCentral.com is ALMOST done and is a masterpiece. It's has ton and time and effort I've poured into it and I hope tons of people stealing tips, advice, binds, configs from it.

By the way, I could have spent the last 115 minutes (almost 2 hours) working on that instead of spending time thinking about this!@@!!@!@@!!@!@

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 11:36 pm 
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>>Btw, until right now I had *no* idea Painkiller invented the Thor rune.

My point exactly.

>>IEEE, it seems odd to me that you would want Slot to do what you yourself did not do? Isn't your own idea of how you go about crediting others (not crediting Singe or Rod) a good enough standard for everyone?

Well if you want to know what triggered it, it was PK saying that he and Slot were working on a standard map pack so people didn't have to download stuff all the time.

You know...

...that thing Dolemite, Lefty, Saleen, myself, many testers and others worked on? And we only went forward with it because we had many admins agreed to use it in the event they wanted new maps.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 11:47 pm 
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Mr Wi-Fi wrote:
Well if you want to know what triggered it, it was PK saying that he and Slot were working on a standard map pack so people didn't have to download stuff all the time.


Frustrating that people don't get their shit together faster isn't it. Well, that's life and unless you've invented a Time Machine Rune we can't go back and ask people to have their shit together 2 years ago can we?

So let's just be happy everyone is trying again instead of thinking "gee I said that a long time ago".

Quote:
Well if you want to know what triggered it, it was PK saying that he and Slot were working on a standard map pack so people didn't have to download stuff all the time.


Read post #3 in this thread ... I DID KNOW. I know you too well, read post #3.

How about this IEEE, how about instead of getting mad about it, how about sending an email to Slot telling him which runes/ideas were originals by you?

Slot is a fair and generous guy. Talk to da man instead of charging in here and creating an earthquake?!!?

Glad this getting defused, I know you have to vent and get frustrated.

Slot is not exactly the head of the League of Supervillains of Bastards so just talk to him.

Glad everything is cool! And fixed in less than 2 hours!! :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 11:54 pm 
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One thing I've learned from working with this community is that history repeats itself, but the roles can change.

I guess everything anyone else adds is considered fan fiction.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 11:59 pm 
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I don't do what I do for the credit, I do it because I enjoy doing it. I've contributed to many projects in my lifetime and sometimes I get credit for my ideas and sometimes I do not. The reward doesn't come from the credit, but that someone actually took the time to implement my idea(s). Do I feel better when I am mentioned? Of course.

I've only added 5 runes so far whose concept may be the same on other servers but whose code is my own. If I use anyone else's code, you can be sure I'll give credit in my source.

There are so many variations of the same runes today that I didn't credit any one person in particular because I didn't know who to credit. I would much rather extend my thanks, in due time, to everyone who has participated in its creation.

I'm sorry if anyone was offended, but with a little patience .. I'm sure everyone will be pleased. And if by chance I do leave someone out, a courtesy e-mail is all it would take.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2003 12:00 am 
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I would be happy if it was just coding all the time and nothing motivates me more than actually seeing something I created in action, but when it comes to totally reinventing an already done idea it just steams my carrots especially when it involves the people who agreed in the first place.

But my anger will pass because it's pointless, I'm only angery because of the bad way it was presented.

No hard feelings, I'll just mentally call you morons :wink:


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2003 3:32 am 
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Baker wrote:
Btw, until right now I had *no* idea Painkiller invented the Thor rune.


Hey! Touch of Death was mine too! :P

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PK


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2003 11:59 am 
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Painkiller wrote:
Hey! Touch of Death was mine too! :P

---
PK


Hey I was involved in the Touch of Death creation too you know, I consider it the first rune idea I came up with that was ever created by someone else :)


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2003 12:53 pm 
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Mr Wi-Fi wrote:
I was involved in the Touch of Death creation too


Never said you weren't. You modified my code and it's much better now. I did notice, however, on the old RQP message board that your name was listed beside it as the creator. :)

Mr Wi-Fi wrote:
I consider it the first rune idea I came up with that was ever created by someone else.


Speaking of which, you mentioned the Darkness and Sonar runes were created by you. Do you remember when I mentioned about a month or so ago that both were created by Nick 'Singe' Bousman and how I found both runes in his 1998 QW mod? Must've been one of those 1 in a million coincidences that you created the exact same runes he did years before?

I agree with Slot, give credit where credit is due IEEE. Don't blatantly swipe someone else's ideas and then whine because someone else "stole" your idea(s).

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2003 1:23 pm 
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Quote:
Speaking of which, you mentioned the Darkness and Sonar runes were created by you. Do you remember when I mentioned about a month or so ago that both were created by Nick 'Singe' Bousman and how I found both runes in his 1998 QW mod? Must've been one of those 1 in a million coincidences that you created the exact same runes he did years before?

I agree with Slot, give credit where credit is due IEEE. Don't blatantly swipe someone else's ideas and then whine because someone else "stole" your idea(s).


No it's true, I came up with Sonar and Darkness all on my own. "1 in a million coincidences" is possible, the Wizard's sound does sound like sonar. And I got the idea for Darkness from a tutorial that showed how to change the lighting (the same one Chuck ran at Widomaker once).

If you want proof of Darkness just look in your own message board for this post I made many many years ago:

Quote:
Gaia rune – When the level gets damaged (Shot) you feel it’s pain, but you get all the weapons, ammo, quad, pent and health on the level and continue getting them as they respawn until killed or dropped. You get points for any deaths from lava, slime, or falling when you have this rune.

The DOD Rune – The Doughnut of Destruction – based on a weapon in the movie “Spaced Invaders”. Blows up anyone OUT of sight range. Has a 30 second count down, and only works 1/3rd of the time. During the last 10 seconds you start to lose control and bounce around the map like with weird rune. Called a doughnut of destruction because the aliens stood inside a giant doughnut shaped device that would blow up everything outside of it (Including their ship. Blaznee, “We’re doomed!”).

The Divine Blizzard Rune – You explode in a frigid blast that freezes everyone in sight range.

The Divine Blow Dryer Rune – You explode in a fire blast that sets everyone in sight range on fire.

The Rocketeer Rune – You get a very fast, powerful and stable jet pack that runs off rocket ammo, 1 rocket equals 5 seconds of fuel. Rune-activate alone goes straight up, but when going forward and using rune-activate causes you to fly forward and slightly up at a fast rate (Same goes for the rest of the directions).

The Banana Peel Rune – Drops a gib (Or something) that when stepped on causes a player to slide around out of control for a short time period.

Ninja Strike! Rune – Silently teleports you forward each time you activate it, appearing a little to the left or right each time. Only works at full health and does not telefrag people.

Lights Out Rune - Level goes completely black until someone is killed (Based off of movies where the lights go out and come on with someone dead). Only works 3 times. There has been a Night-mode on some server before, so there is a way to make the level totally dark.

Gravity Assist Rune – Creates an invisible gravity well that can be used to “sling-shot” your-self around. When activated you start circling the invisible well and depending on when you release you could go flying away at an extremely high speed, then activate again to stop, catching you in your gravity well again to repeat the process. Works sort of like a grapple hook only with gravity. Similar to an idea by Chuck, but came about the idea when looking through a science glossary.

Guided Missile Rune – Player guides rockets in 1st person. The first time you hit rune-activate it launches a missile, 2nd detonates it, tho missile will detonate on impact too. 10 rockets for 1 missile. This has been an alternate weapon in a mod before. This idea comes from HaVoC, a mod for Tribes.

The Sticky Turret Rune – You have two electricity shooting turrets that can be placed anywhere on the level. They stick to walls, roofs, sky and other players. When an enemy gets close to one it shoots electricity at them causing very little damage. Should be taken out in one shot. Similar to Dead Zone’s Auto Sentry rune.

The Rune of Body Odor – Rune-activate raises your funk-o-meter each time it’s activated. The Funk-o-meter ranges from PU to Stanky. Rune-delete sets the funk-o-meter back to its lowest setting, and then drops it if you push it again. At the lowest setting players near you lose 5% health, as you raise the Funk-o-meter you do more damage to people near you, but if you raise it too high you start to hurt your-self. At the highest setting your own stankyness overcomes you and the corpse you leave behind is hazardous to those who touch it.

The Lure Rune – First activation drops a pack, the lure, second reels it in or recalls it. If the enemy picks up the pack you can drag them around behind you or reel them in towards you for killing (They could also kill you). This rune might not have many obvious uses other than annoying people with lose of control or dragging them into lava, but it would be fun to mess around with.

Blue Balls Rune – You have trouble shooting your rocket launcher, but when you do you fire 5 rockets in rapid succession.

The Rune of Good Deeds – Works like switch, only when you hit someone you give them and yourself 100+ health and ammo/weapons.

Bubble-boy Rune – Rune-activate creates a bubble around you making you extremely bouncy. When you hit walls you bounce back, when you jump or fall you bounce around like a dodge ball. Landing on top of people kills them. If you are shot or if you shoot the bubble bursts. A second rune-activate pops the bubble too. It also makes you float on water when the bubble is on and you float to the top if you activate the bubble under water.

The Fish of Caerbannog Rune – Rune-activate places a single fish that flops on the ground. If someone shoots the fish it flies into the shooter killing them on contact, then falls back to the ground and resumes flopping. The fish can track down who shot it like the Homing Fish that was on DeadZone for awhile, but will give up after awhile. It also kills people who step on it. The fish has 900 health, but since it only attacks when provoked it can be avoided pretty easily.
(This idea is a spin off of the Rabbit of Caerbannog from “Monty Python and the Holy Grail” (Read http://bau2.uibk.ac.at/sg/python/Script ... il-21.html))

Light Grenade Rune(Not what you’d think it is) – Rune-activate drops a grenade that spins around like a rune or weapon. When someone picks the grenade up, they vanish leaving only a pack (You die, but with no body or sound, only a death message lets you know what happened “So and so picked up a Flash Grenade” or similar). The rune is then tossed from where the player touched it and is ready for another victim. This rune plays on people’s curiosity, seeing a floating/spinning grenade might interest some people. Similar to a death spot, only you get one that lasts until you die. A second rune-activate removes the old one and places a new one where you want it.
(A weapon from the movie “Mom and Dad Save the World”.)

The Sore Loser Rune – Each time a rune-activate is issued the person with the highest frags switches to the axe, a message is sent to you letting you know who you’re affecting. The winner can switch his weapons, they’re just changed back to the axe when the person with the Sore Loser Rune activates again. Could be viewed as a spin off of the “Axe of War” idea from Deadzone.


Darkness evolved from Lights Out Rune.

Now looking at that I wonder where you got the idea for Body Oder when The Rune of Body Odor was one of my old ideas :wink:


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