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 Post subject: Joszef, Improved Pak0.Pak for JoeQuake
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 2:33 pm 
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Joszef,

Yellow No. 5 has made a improved pak0.pak for JoeQuake

Download link: Improved Pak0.pak

(That link is bandwidth limited, I private messaged you a non-bandwidth limited link in the event that one doesn't work).

Here is what we did ...

Improved Pak0.pak wrote:
1. Put the standard ID1 default.cfg into joequake\pak0.pak
2. Added r_novis 1 to the default.cfg
3. Fixed a problem with the ID default F11 zoom key (it messed up SENSITIVITY)
4. Added cfg_savevars 1


Each improvement ...

1. The JoeQuake joequake\pak0.pak didn't have a default.cfg causing first time users to have no keys bound when starting joequake (fixed). Now first time users will have the ID Software defaults just like the ones packed into id1\pak0.pak

2. r_novis 1 ... a user that wants transparent water/lava will have the capability on by default without learning a new command. Users who have changed their maps will know how to set r_novis 0, but newbies won't know about set r_novis 1 and would think that the transparency sliderbar not working in JoeQuake by default is a bug. (fixed)

3. The ID Software default Zoom script has "SENSITIVITY 3" in it. Most players don't use that setting so pressing F11 messes up your sensitivity. Newbies that hit that key don't know what to do. We considered this a flaw. (fixed)

4. Turned on savevars, so newbies changing their settings won't be surprised that the information didn't preserve. (fixed)

-----------------------------------------

Everything else is the same as the standard one one supplied and the JoeQuake 0.14DEV download.

Baker



Note
--------------------------------------------
We were trying to be very conservative. We had other ideas for subtle improvements like cl_forwardspeed 999, but we decided that any big deviation from the defaults should be put into a supplied autoexec.cfg or something, not in a pak file, so a user could open and see what the settings are.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 4:35 pm 
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Quote:
2. r_novis 1 ... a user that wants transparent water/lava will have the capability on by default without learning a new command. Users who have changed their maps will know how to set r_novis 0, but newbies won't know about set r_novis 1 and would think that the transparency sliderbar not working in JoeQuake by default is a bug. (fixed)


Well, I get your problem, but on the other end this will cause a huge performance slow at their computer, and I already see their screamig posts like "joequake is REALLY slow on my comp, what do I do?!?" :)
A newbie who doesn't know what's the transparency slider bar for will also be confused why his joequake is slow like hell... What do you think?

Quote:
3. The ID Software default Zoom script has "SENSITIVITY 3" in it. Most players don't use that setting so pressing F11 messes up your sensitivity. Newbies that hit that key don't know what to do. We considered this a flaw. (fixed)


Sheesh, who at id had such an idea to let this... hmmm
Hard nut that's for sure. The goos way of implementing would be of course is to set the sensitivity back to its previous value which is used at non-zooming. But all sure this would have to be customized by the user.

Hmm hmm. Half of a fix if you ask me. Okay, sensitivity will be saved, but player might won't know what happened as he hit F11 coz of the rapid fov change :)
What if we just simply remove the whole zoom thingie at all?

Good suggestions though, appreciated.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 4:51 pm 
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Ok, we'll remove the zoom key altogether and scrap r_novis 1. Maybe there should be something on the options screen to turn on transparent water like "Software Transparency ON/OFF" that turns R_Novis 1 on or R_Novis 0.

(On newer computers, r_novis 1 doesn't cause a slowdown, and I never noticed a slowdown on my old 400 Mhz machine. Maybe I need to do some more testing with JoeQuake ... I'll post the results on both my old machine 400 Mhz and my new machine 2 Ghz)

Btw, on ProQuake cheat-free servers, it is my understanding that using vised maps will not permit you to play. I always long used r_novis 1 because I could play anywhera and stll have trans water.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 3:55 am 
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Joe ... the download link for the pak0.pak above and the one in the private message have both been updated to kill the zoom key completely and we removed "r_novis 1" out of the default.cfg in the pak0.pak


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 4:37 am 
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Why not make it so that if the water alpha slide bar is all the way up (at 1) , r_novis=0, and with it anything < 1, r_novis=1? Would that be possible?


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 12:16 pm 
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Someone with a computer that chokes on r_novis rendering of transparent water would want to use vised maps and they would still use r_wateralpha, and in that event they would not be using r_novis 1.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 3:54 pm 
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The best way to solve this wateralpha problem is to remove the slider from the video options menu. At least I see this currently.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 9:35 pm 
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Joe, here is a thought ...

The easy installer I built for JoeQuake supports conditionals, meaning it can pop up a message box with options. I could set it up to ask about the user's hardware and then either set r_novis to 1 for a power machine or have r_novis set to 0 and a message to visit the joequake.quake1.net for more information.

Later tonight, I will private message you the information on the installer I am using (it's a free installer and a very nice one) and provide you the project file so you take mine and modify it if you choose (and get an idea of how it works).

It would be nice to leave the wateralpha bar in, I think most people like that feature. Besides, no one can stay a newbie forever, might be a good starter topic for someone to visit your website and forum.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 3:50 pm 
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Ok, I like the idea. Gonna check out your installer, thanks.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 6:03 pm 
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Gotta a much better one now ;)

I'll private message the link to you after I've completed all that I want to do and double check my work ;)

Image

Unlike some other installers, this one is lean and mean.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 1:41 am 
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for one, to see transparent water u need r_novis 1.
Yes this will run slow on some computers, because the extra data and the way quake handles transparencies. So, i added a condition on the menu slider, if r_wateralpha < 0 ; set r_novis 1; other wise its 0...
because even with the slider u have to set r_novis in console.
Joe, i couldnt find that demo search bug. It doesnt happen in jqpro. :/

On another note. Since people are complaining about how jq and jqpro are sharing /joequake and fmod etc.. Im going to rename jqpro to something entirely different. Like how JT named his conversion to TREMOR, and others..
this will keep joequake, joequake... without any confusions.
But as always i'll be happy to post feature lists and swap code/ideas :D


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 1:46 am 
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sputnikutah wrote:
Like how JT named his conversion to TREMOR, and others.. this will keep joequake, joequake... without any confusions.


Tremor's fmod.dll overwrites both of yours too, Sput .. heh ;)

You can't have Tremor and JoeQuake or JoeQuake Pro simultaneously installed because the Tremor fmod.dll overwrites the JoeQuake or JoeQuake Pro fmod.dll.

Perhaps Tremor should use tmod.dll ;)

Btw .. Sput, I was the one who had mentioned this Yellow about the file sharing issue (but I think you know). I'll give you EZ installer source files as well.

I noticed this problem when creating installers for Quake (shareware)/ProQuake/JoeQuake and I was going to make one for yours and noticed the file overlap.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 1:58 am 
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well i use fmod.dll v3.74, it should still work with joequake.


3.74 is the most current.


Last edited by sputnikutah on Sun Jun 19, 2005 2:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 2:02 am 
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Yeah but what if Jozsef changes his? hehe

Check private messages, I sent you source/project files for easy installer if you are interested.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 4:12 pm 
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Quote:
because even with the slider u have to set r_novis in console.


Not if one uses vised maps. And it is meant to work with those!
Still, I see r_novis as a _bad_ issue. It causes a huge performance loss even on today's fast machines. But on the other end, this "vising" thing is even more difficult for newbies. *sigh*

Quote:
Joe, i couldnt find that demo search bug. It doesnt happen in jqpro. :/


Nore happens to me, so I dunno what's Mandel's problem either. *sigh* #2

I like your installer Baker. Really a nice one!


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 3:41 am 
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Heh... Well it does happen every time I hit the wrong key (s, +back) but that gamma fix tool aguirRe liked works perfectly so it's no big issue anymore tbh. Thanks for looking though.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 1:45 am 
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Joe, check this topic out..
http://www.quakesrc.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4870

Mh has created auto-vis support, only vis's maps on the fly locally, meaning u can NOT connect online and have vis'd maps. But if vis'd maps are rendered faster with r_wateralpha than with r_novis 1 u may try using this bit of code to autovis the maps for singleplayer/demos...


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